The consenus is that Samba can support 300 users on SPARC.
Anecdotal levels are:
Platform Number of users
SPARC 5 50, 1500, 225
SPARC 10 60
Ultra 170E 200 (also a pop server)
Ultra 2 128
However, one admin reported very poor performance using Samba
as file server for 5 programmers - BSD/OS 3.0 P133Mhz, 64MB ram.
He reported that NT does better on same hardware. As usual,
it really depends on how clients will use the server - 1500 users
on SPARC 5!
Novell was given a hearty vote of confidence - still the best file
and print server available.
In the spirit of cost cutting Linux + Samba was recomended by nearly
all respondents. And in the spirit of performance Linux receives
praise for out-performing Solaris.
Additional alternatives were recommended: NFS ($$), Sun SMS server,
Soltice LM (same as SMS server?), Syntax TAS LAN manager.
Several admins warned of putting anything on a database server.
I would have to agree.
As for the extra credit - Solaris x86 was given a hearty vote of
confidence. And, I was reminded that "Netware is very stable as long
as you don't load any funny NLM's." -- yes.
Thanks to all who responded!
mattias@txc.com (Mattias Zhabinskiy)
Justin Young <justiny@cluster.engr.subr.edu>
Anthony Goonetilleke <agoon@arbld.unimelb.edu.au>
Mike Frisch <mfrisch@saturn.tlug.org>
birger@Vest.Sdata.No (Birger A. Wathne)
sysadmin@odetics.com (System Administrator - David Rossman)
bill@aloft.micro.lucent.com (Bill Shorter - Local Account)
rali@meitca.com (Reto Lichtensteiger)
Charles Mengel <crm@lgi.com>
"Karl E. Vogel" <vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil>
crguev@velu.com (Carlos R. Guevara - Sun Managers Acc.)
Martin Huber <Martin.Huber@otn.lm.dasa.de>
dhale@galen.ucsd.edu
Original query -
Hello Sun Admins,
My agency is evaluating Samba on Sun as a replacement for
our Novell 3.12 servers. Currently we support 250 users
on a Novell server at our central office and 25 users on
a Novell server at each of four regional offices.
We seek advice on the feasibility of supporting our users
with Samba on Solaris x86 and SPARC. Any advice or antidotes
are welcome. Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server? I will
summarize.
Extra Credit: Is Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ...
Is it the platform (Intel) or the OS that is unstable
(be it Novell or Solaris)?
Brion Leary <brion@dia.state.ma.us>
Hello Sun Admins,
My agency is evaluating Samba on Sun as a replacement for
our Novell 3.12 servers. Currently we support 250 users
on a Novell server at our central office and 25 users on
a Novell server at each of four regional offices.
We seek advice on the feasibility of supporting our users
with Samba on Solaris x86 and SPARC. Any advice or antidotes
are welcome. Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server? I will
summarize.
Extra Credit: Is Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ...
Is it the platform (Intel) or the OS that is unstable
(be it Novell or Solaris)?
Brion Leary <brion@dia.state.ma.us>
The replies -
From: mattias@txc.com (Mattias Zhabinskiy)
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
Hi Brion,
You wrote:
> Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
> an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server?
I don't have experience with 300+ users, but I'm
running about 50 users on SPARC 5 without any problems.
> Extra Credit: Is Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ...
> Is it the platform (Intel) or the OS that is unstable
> (be it Novell or Solaris)?
Solaris x86 is very stable platform, if all the hardware
complies with Sun requirements, but I would highly recommend
to use Linux on Intel platform: it's free, very stable,
comes with all network protocols you need (including samba for Win,
netatalk for Mac, Novell client) and tons of other freebies.
BRs,
Matt
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: Justin Young <justiny@cluster.engr.subr.edu>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
No. But have lots and lots of resources. Samba won't perform as fast
as a Novell file server because Novell is simply the best at that.
(Contrary to anything Microsoft says, Netware's still the best
file/print server.)
I dunno about putting the Samba server on the same machine running a
300 user Oracle database. Database servers (and now, modern web
servers) are best left to dedicated machines. The performance of both
tends to suffer if they are put on one machine.
The differences in Solaris x86 and Sparc Solaris aren't related to
stability. Most of them involve performance, security, and
portability.
(Did they ever fix that oversized ping bug with Solarisx86?)
Netware is very stable as long as you don't load any funny NLM's. But
you know that already.
To be honest, you can run Samba on Linux and get the same performance
as on Solarisx86 (I assume you're talking a single CPU machine).
RAM is generally more important than processing power. This true for
any fileserver, be it NFS, Netware, NT(you need a fast Pentium for
version 4.0), etc.
Since you said you had a four processor ultra, I assume you have an
Enterprise 3000. You didn't state the size of your Oracle database.
If it's a small database like 500MB-1GB. Then just have about 3GB of
RAM and have fun. If it's larger, err. umm... You know what to do.
Justin Young http://coe.engr.subr.edu/~justiny/
2212 Heck Young Rd. Graduating ME Student/Systems Asst
Baker, LA 70714 Southern University
(504)-771-4070 mailto:justiny@cluster.engr.subr.edu
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: Anthony Goonetilleke <agoon@arbld.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
There is no problem (depending on the usage ofcourse).
We have approx 1500 users on a sun sparc 5 and it works well with
SAMBA. I am currently testing an Ultra running Oracle DB and Oracle
webserver as well as SAMBA I will keep you informed.
regards,
Anthony
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony M. Goonetilleke System Administrator
PH: +61 3 9 344 7934 Dept. Architect. Bld. & Planning
FX: +61 3 9 344 5532 Melb Univ. Parkville, VIC 3052
(Work) : agoon@arbld.unimelb.edu.au
(Personal) : motech@theoffice.net
http://www.arbld.unimelb.edu.au/~agoon/
---------------------------------------------------------------
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: Mike Frisch <mfrisch@saturn.tlug.org>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 brion@dia.state.ma.us wrote:
> are welcome. Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
> an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server? I will
> summarize.
I would have to say not... I run Samba on BSD/OS 3.0 server (P133MHz
with 64MB RAM) with 5 client machines compiling code over a network
connection to the server. Performance is absolutely terrible (as
compared to a NetBEUI connection with a Windows NT machine) over
100Mbit Ethernet. It does, however, work VERY well (very robust). If
you need NetBEUI, I would definitely recommend NT Server on some
decent hardware instead of a kludge on Solaris.
An alternative would be adding NFS support to your clients. This
should offer _significantly_ better performance if your clients
support NFS V3.
Mike.
======================================================================
Mike Frisch Email: mfrisch@saturn.tlug.org
Northstar Technologies WWW: http://mfrisch.rogerswave.ca/~mfrisch
Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: birger@Vest.Sdata.No (Birger A. Wathne)
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
Ther is a commercial product available from Sun.
Solstice LM server or something like that.
Birger
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: sysadmin@odetics.com (System Administrator - David
Rossman)
Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
We are using Samba throughout our organization and are very happy
with it. We have split our organization into multiple workgroups on
separate servers to reduce the load. We do have one Ultra1/170E server
that is serving three separate subnets. The total number of users is
just under 200 for that one server. It is also a POP server.
We are currently thinking about splitting off one subnet to a
separate machine because peak loads will put a severe beating
on the server. Most of the time, though, the server handles the
number of users without a problem. I think it really depends on
what the file-serving needs are. If you have users that are
constantly reading and writing files, then you need a more powerful
server, but occasional users won't have a problem.
As far as putting an Oracle DB on there in adddition to Samba,
I wouldn't recommend it. If you have the ability to dedicate a
database server, do it. We do have one Ultra 1/170E server that
does have both Oracle and Samba. It works just fine, but neither
Oracle transactions or file system usage would be considered
heavy.
Hope this helps,
David Rossman
UNIX Systems Administrator E-Mail: sysadmin@odetics.com
Odetics, Inc. 1515 S. Manchester Ave. Voice: (714)
780-7820 Anaheim, CA 92802-2907 FAX: (714) 780-7857
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: bill@aloft.micro.lucent.com (Bill Shorter - Local
Account)
Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
I have Samba supporting about 225 users on a SPARCstation-5. We
plan to drop Samba in favor of what I describe in the next paragraph.
I suggest you also look at Syntax Corp.'s TAS LAN manager server. It
has what Samba does not, namely software support. Syntax is at
206-838-2626 or email to doug@syntax.com and mention my name.
Bill Shorter
IBM at Lucent Tech.
bill@aloft.lucent.com
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: rali@meitca.com (Reto Lichtensteiger)
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
brion@dia.state.ma.us wrote:
<> My agency is evaluating Samba on Sun as a replacement for
<> our Novell 3.12 servers. Currently we support 250 users
<> on a Novell server at our central office and 25 users on
<> a Novell server at each of four regional offices.
<>
<> We seek advice on the feasibility of supporting our users
<> with Samba on Solaris x86 and SPARC. Any advice or antidotes
<> are welcome. Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
<> an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server? I will
<> summarize.
You can certainly run SAMBA on that server -- whether you want to run
both Oracle AND samba is a function of the query load you expect
oracle to handle.
<> Extra Credit: Is Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ...
<> Is it the platform (Intel) or the OS that is unstable
<> (be it Novell or Solaris)?
I've never used Solaris on the Intel architecture. Intel has had some
well advertised bugs, but the chips are pretty good. Just don't run
Billysoft on 'em :-)
I suggest you start by running oracle and samba on the Ultra; should
you start to get complaints about response time (bitchin' and whinin'
seem to be the best benchmarks out there <g>), I would recommend you
move the samba configs to a fast PentiumPro box running Linux. The
newest versions of Linux kick Sun's butt soundly in networking
benchmarks and samba compiles "out of the box" on it.
You could easily put a Linux box at each remote location; heck, just
drop Linux onto the current novell servers at your regional offices,
and provide local smb file and print services.
Reto L.
--
R A Lichtensteiger rali@meitca.com -or- rali@world.std.com
http://www.meitca.com/ITA/People/rali
"Yes, you're doing things right, but are you doing the right
things?" "Nope. I'm just doing something dumb fast."
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: Charles Mengel <crm@lgi.com>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
Brion --
Leaving the samba question aside for the moment, I wanted to address
the server question. I just picked up Brain Wong's book on server
configuration - he states that the x86 version on PCs do not make good
servers. The CPUs can be quite fast, but the bus structures make I/O
and memory slower as compared to Ultras or other Sun servers.
You can get the book at Computer Literacy in Tysons Corner if you are
interested!
======================================================================
====== |Charles Mengel | |Systems Eng Manager
| ________________ |LGI | |
_____ _ | |10450 Shaker Drive Suite 208 | |/ \ * / /
| |Columbia Maryland USA 21046 | \ | | |____ |VOICE
410-997-1393 | \ | | | |FAX
410-720-1241 | |_| | / |EMAIL
charles.mengel@lgi.com | \___| |WEB
www.lgi.com | Fixed Width Font Test
| Hope this looks like Maryland!!!
======================================================================
=======
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: "Karl E. Vogel" <vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:58:58 -0500,
>> brion@dia.state.ma.us said:
B> We seek advice on the feasibility of supporting our users with
Samba on B> Solaris x86 and SPARC. Any advice or antidotes are
welcome. Can I support B> 300+ users with Samba and run an Oracle DB
(300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu B> server? I will summarize.
B> Extra Credit: Is Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ... Is it
the B> platform (Intel) or the OS that is unstable (be it Novell or
Solaris)?
You may want to consider either Linux or BSDI Unix on an Intel
platform. Both are very stable and considerably less expensive.
--
Karl Vogel
vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433
937-255-3688
1776 - 1984
There Is No Middle Ground --a button from the Libertarian Party
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: crguev@velu.com (Carlos R. Guevara - Sun Managers
Acc.)
Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
Samba is one solution......SUN also offers the NETRA -S, for System
Management Service, that as FAR AS I UNDERSTAND has a software package
(it may be available separately) that will allow a sun to speak IPX
and allow you to replace the NOVELL servers without having to change
anything on the PCs.....
Now, back, to SAMBA....My experience with SAMBA has been quite good,
but the problem is that it uses (AGAIN AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND) the
Netbeui protocol, which is NOTORIOUSLY ineficient for large
networks...
Another possibility, would be to use NFS.....Version 3.0 from Sun
works great with Windows95, letting you do a lot of neat things that
NOVELL still is clunky at with 95....JUST ONE PROBLEM, NFS is quite
expensive!
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: Martin Huber <Martin.Huber@otn.lm.dasa.de>
Subject: Re: Samba - Can it support 300+ users
>
> My agency is evaluating Samba on Sun as a replacement for
> our Novell 3.12 servers. Currently we support 250 users
> on a Novell server at our central office and 25 users on
> a Novell server at each of four regional offices.
>
> We seek advice on the feasibility of supporting our users
> with Samba on Solaris x86 and SPARC. Any advice or antidotes
> are welcome. Can I support 300+ users with Samba and run
> an Oracle DB (300+ users) on an Ultra 4cpu server? I will
> summarize.
>
It depends on the network connection between your server and the
user PC's, and how much data they want to read or write.
This moment I have 378 samba shares mounted by 128 users on a
Ultra-2. I had about 60 more users on a SS-10 before some of them were
moved into another building. So your Ultra 4 should easily support
more users than a 10 MB ethernet can handle. > > Extra Credit: Is
Solaris x86 as stable as on a SPARC? Or ... > Is it the platform
(Intel) or the OS that is unstable > (be it Novell or Solaris)? > I
use samba on 4 Solaris-x86 servers without any problems
Martin
*** ----------------------------------------------- ***
From: dhale@galen.ucsd.edu
SUBJECT: At a previous employer:
Although I had two seasoned administrators install and configure them
I had no trouble implementing multiple daemons processes on WANed HP
Vectra III's with the Solaris x86 OS and the optional C compiler.
These daemons used TCP/IP sockets, Message Queues, and created
enormous log files for debugging and transaction logging.
This was also in conjunction with serial I/O. We used some of those
Digi-channel (8-port) cards to provide connectivity to
non-network-capable systems.
We got Great throughput, we treated those Solaris machines almost as
they were WAN routers!
Thats all I remember and will be capable to provide. Hope It helps.
:D)